Posts by Jonathan Drake

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

I'm just telling you the impression I get from what you posted.

This I understand. I really do, and my point is this:

you can respond to me and state what your impression is and I can respond and explain whether or not that was my intention. The Quran can only do this if someone positions it's words for it, and the same is true of the Bible. My goal, my posts, were aimed at this cause- to let the books speak in response and show what they say (I.e., someone said the Quran denies Christ is the messiah, but it says otherwise). If we are going to say that they say this or that and that what they say is vile, we should be willing to actually hear them out and see if what we've heard about them or read about them is actually true. That was all I was doing. If the conclusion you have reached personally remains unaffected that is completely your call, I only sought to ensure any false ideas were rectified- not to change your mind about it. As I stated earlier if I came across that way I do apologize, but I can assure you it's not my intention in the slightest. I'm not even a Muslim lol.

also I added an edition to my previous post, in case you missed it. I want to ensure you know I did read your whole post and that if your indication was meant to be this you feel islam should reform some how I agree with this. It really should.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

You seem to want to be the authority on what both Christians and Muslims should and shouldn't believe and which writings are the true word of god or not.

But again, this is something I have never claimed, regardless of what may or may not seem to be the case. I never once said this at all, yet you're interpreting what I said to mean it somehow.

this is a further example of what I said above. And I mean this as friendly as possible, but you've all done far more interpreting in this thread than I have because it is continuing to happen with my words which, 'seem' to indicate to you what you want them to so you can lambast me. But I never said it. I never said or even thought abou claiming Christians of any enoki action are fake, or that I am the authority on how they should think and feel. Regarding the latter, I've emphasized the opposite at least three times.

Just like with the words on the pages, the words I actually speak and type aren't the words being read or heard- they are being read into and turned I to something else entirely. Personally, I feel this might just be human nature, but it serves to illustrate my point in the last post I made once again.

That is because Christianity went through it's reformation and took a pen to the bible, crossing out large swathes of it as no longer applicable / just historical narrative.

also if this is meant as an indication that you feel islam should have its own reformation, I completely agree and said so on another page.

15

Is the UN really the disgusting thing?

by StarTrekAngel in

been dwelling on this for a while.

was there any particular history on this or anywhere where the wt picked up someone else's doctrine?.

in most cases, the bible uses the word "disgusting thing" to refer to idols, idolatry and false religion.

Jonathan Drake

I don't see how the UN could be the beast. I feel this way because the beast represents some political entity with real power. The UN just doesn't really do anything.

Because of a recent thread I'm going to refrain from posting my thoughts on this subject further unless asked. I do have theories on the beast identies.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

Second, if you say a Christian isn't following the bible as you interpret it then it's reasonable to take that as meaning they are not as "real" a Christian as someone that you believe follows your interpretation of it more closely.

This potion of your post perfectly encapsulates my annoyance with this thread. I said what I said, and it was TWISTED to mean I think Christians are fake even thoug I never said that. This is how my words, despite not being what it's claimed they were, have been interpreted.

the same has been done to the Quran in this thread. It's actual words are being interpreted to mean something other than what they say. My goal has been to point out that it doesn't say this or that. Just like right now, I'm telling you, I've never said any Christians are fake.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

@myelaine

i apologize. In my aggravation I let my tongue get ahead of me, it's uncharacteristic of me to make blanket statements like that, I'm sorry.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

I think you are confusing different things there. They can be both sincere but misguided - it's not one or the other.
There isn't one religion that has a 100% clear holy text that isn't open to some interpretation. It's why the text is almost irrelevant - all that matters is what they chose to say and do. The closer that is to the text then the more confident we can be that their beliefs are influenced by the text but they can chose to believe any mumbo jumbo.

100% agree with this. That's exactly my point, I never said they were fake. i would never say this. Anyone striving to be Christian is trying to understand God regardless of if I agree with their method or not. Thus I would never say they are fake. It's not my place. So saying I have said this, is slander. I did not.

In fact, this short text is very much the point ive been trying to make in almost every post I've made in this thread.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

Viv: would you mind NOT telling other people what they think and why? They (we) are perfectly capable of explaining it ourselves.

Hypocrite.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
- Susan B. Anthony

Annnnnd:

JD: I do not just say they mean whatever I want, because if I did that I'd still be a JW and I am not.

Hmmmmm....

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

Show me where I said other Christians are fake Christians? I said they don't listen to their own book, not that they were insincere.

Youre still ill putting words in my mouth. I can't even begin to explain how much I dislike you. Please stop slandering me and concocting your nonsense.

26

Jesus died for US...technically

by enigma1863 in

for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son and then took him back.

that's not love, its a big legal loophole.

people have technically died in the past, and by the standards of diagnosing death in bible times you could definitely beat 48 hrs and return.

Jonathan Drake

Good points. I was engrossed in another thread earlier. I'll still look into this though, see what the rest of the New Testament says. It COULD be that this is only referring to Jesus IN PERSON. Possibly not though. I'll get out the strongs concordance and see what I can find.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

You are the same an every other preaching christian.

Wrong. Every other christian would tell you to enjoy hell and say hi to a relative they hate. Feel free to review my posts and reach the proper conclusion of what I actually did and said, because I feel preaching is wrong, and I feel saying such things as they would to you now is wrong. I've said so many times across this board.

just because I will not allow a statement to go uncorrected doesn't mean I care whether or not the person accepts the reality of what the book says. I positioned the verses I did expecting there to be rebuttal, but ultimately how a person feels about it is up to them. I have not pressed my views on anyone and in fact took steps to avoid it. I've only responded with verse quotation. If you think it says something other than the words on the page that's your call, and you might be right. I just won't agree, and I have no idea how some who have posted here have reached the conclusions they have - but it's their conclusion to reach.

With all due respect to all of you, if you don't want to hear an opposing view, then keep yours to yourself. Not everyone will agree with you, and you just have to deal with it.

i don't agree with cofty nor does cofty with me. And I'm okay with that, it's the nature of people. Same with Simon. But viv, you do in fact back pedal and reverse yiur stand and say people said things they didn't and that you didn't when you did and it's exhausting and aggravating. So let's you and I just stay away from each other once it is clear we cannot agree- and here we will not.

I did not try to tell anyone what any verse I quoted means, I quoted it and it spoke for itself. I do not appreciate being slandered as interpreting scriptures my own way as I do not do this - I take them as they are and put a lot of effort into placing them in their proper context to understand their cultural references and the events that surrounded them. I do not just say they mean whatever I want, because if I did that I'd still be a JW and I am not.